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21 Jul 2012, 6.06PM

32 comments & replies |by Lai CF (Guru) | Our Common Space

He was borned in 1953 in China...and his family migrated to SIngapore when he was 4 year old.

AT 17 year old, speaking hardly a word of ENglish, he worked as an apprentice in Jurong Shipyard; and after 2 years of training, promoted to fitter grade.
He told me he was called up for full-time National Service (11th intake I think as deferment was allowed due to family hardship then) where he was forced to learn English, especially all the NCO are either Malay SIngaporeans or Indian SIngaporeans then.

He attended part-time courses at ITE and CIDB, upgraded himself all the while.....and eventually his two chidlren grown up and worekd as IT Manager.

AT 59 year old, he said he is studying 'CHemical Industry and Process Technology" part-time at ITE College as he is sitll ambitious to work at Jurong ISland "Oil & Gas" Industry or pharma industry.

I interviewed him yesterday and immediately offered him a job, saying that I preferred to employ an ageing baby-boomer over the odds (about S$1,200 above my budget) instead of a cheep cheep foreign talent.
If SIngapore company does not support meployment of ageing baby-boomer, who will?

He lives in Hougang..and ofc oruse he supports WP; saying when he was in medium-CHinese school, they were all anti-PAP.
SO you see, the detestations and hatreds against PAP are still deeply rooted amongst the CHinese-educated and the dialect-speaking working class Singaporeans...branding PAP as an elitist ENglish-speaking party that compeltely ignored the CHinese-speaking and dialect-speaking working class.

__________________________________________________________________

Now, you all ask yourself when you are xenophobic agaisnt that 1.9-million foreign talents when yoru forefatehrs are foreign talents int eh 1950s....and eventually settled dwon in Singapore.

Fast forward to 2012..if that gentleman, Mr X, arrives in SIngapore as a 4 year odl from China or India or Phillippine or Myanmar or Vietnam.........

WIl you all still welcome as SIngapore did in 1957 without a whim of xenophobia being exhibited now?

From wikipedia:
Xenophobia is defined as an intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries[1] or as an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.[2] It comes from the Greek words ξένος (xenos), meaning "stranger," "foreigner," and φόβος (phobos), meaning "fear."[3]

Xenophobia can manifest itself in many ways involving the relations and perceptions of an ingroup towards an outgroup, including a fear of losing identity, suspicion of its activities, aggression, and desire to eliminate its presence to secure a presumed purity.[4] Xenophobia can also be exhibited in the form of an "uncritical exaltation of another culture" in which a culture is ascribed "an unreal, stereotyped and exotic quality".[

Is SIngaporeans irrational and intolerant towards strangers nowadays?

Like Germans against "guest wrokers" from Turkey?
Like French and Italian turning against "guest workers" from North Africa?
Or English compaining "too many Poles or Eastern Europeans" in UK?

595 views | 32 comments & replies |

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Guest

21 Jul 2012, 8.49PM

Presidential Election 2011

35% voted PAP endorsed candidate Dr Tony Tan Keng Yam
65% voted non-PAP endorsed candidate

35% includes new immigrated Singaporeans.

Shocking low support for PAP.

Vocal minority?

Xenophobia?

Think before swallowing whatever propaganda.

Guest

21 Jul 2012, 8.58PM

Somebody wrote:-

ST wants you to think it is vocal minority.

We control your thoughts.

We control what you read.

We control what you believe.

Do not turn off the TV

ha ha, welcome to Twilight Zone.

In this thinking age, still got people so gullible meh?

============================

Hey, got 1 sheep here, you forgot leh. Don't think highly of people.

Too many mindless wandering sheeps who don't think lor,

Guest

21 Jul 2012, 9.38PM

Too many people are output kings, just want to show off how good they are at writing and how intelligent they are. They also think many people share the same views as them. Their lack of reading, analysing and thinking ahead and just want to output shows their true mindless state.

Then they encountered real thinking people, then they got to pause and crack their brains for days to put our convincing rebuttals but failed miserable to convince readers and eventually realised wow there are real thinking people out there that they can't out argue or out debate.

Have a nice day. Remember, we live the day to embracing more views and arguments to enhance our brain development and sharpen out wit and debating skills.

Call us crazy, we are not, call us radical, not exactly, call us true out of the box, perhaps, call us unconventional, more likely.

Life is boring without debate. Not to worry, we will always put gracious statement after every debate for we seek higher level of state of being.

Read Reach and you can easily identify us and our forum we hang around.

Guest

21 Jul 2012, 10.12PM

How not so intelligent we are, should have said "easily identify us and our singapore chat forum we hang around.", took us 15-30 minutes to think and write back.

Yes, we are willing to say run down ourselves too, no big deal, no pride, no arrogance, achieving to absorb better inputs from the rest, learning if outwitted, admitting defeat if losing in debate, but come back again enhanced and increased in skills, cheers :) (sorry, cannot give our nickname in school, easily identifiable by friends)

Guest

21 Jul 2012, 10.28PM

Are you mad by any chance?

Sounds like bunch of crazy people or intelligent folks. Real weird.

Guest

21 Jul 2012, 8.46PM

Almost 40% foreigners in Singapore already, what more you want? 5 mil?

No country in the world has so large number of foreigners.

1.4 mil foreigners

560K mil PRs foreigners

Total = 1.9 mil foreigners.

Singaporeans and immigrated Singaporeans - 3.2 mil

Guest

21 Jul 2012, 8.48PM

The general public is not buying vocal minority propaganda. If vocal minority, wouldn't Aljunied GRC not be lost and even if won it will be at only 1% margin instead of 6% margin? Please don't belittle the intelligence of the general public voters, they are not brainless to believe vocal minority propaganda.

Copied from WHCL's article - "PAP political survival vs lesser foreigners to rent and rental dropped."

Are you a mindless sheep or someone who choose to think whenever someone tells you something?

Is it really vocal minority? Did you think further or examine further when someone says to you vocal minority?

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 12.12AM

His family came here in 1953? What was the population here then? What is the population here now? What were "skilled workers" then and now?

Please don't compare apples with oranges and declare pear.

http://www.singstat.gov.sg/stats/themes/people/hist/popn.html

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 12.26AM

Aiyoh, so bad, attack him like that, just simply say 1953 got plenty of spaces and plenty of land.

Thanks for your contribution, given me an idea how to rebut this same style of reply from ministers.

Isn't it wonderful we learn from each other, that's what I seek, call me crazy, I don't care, learned I become.

Guest

21 Jul 2012, 10.23PM

Why 1950s? May as well go back in time to Stone Ages where everybody is a immigrant and whoa hai 5 mil foreign talents xenophobia suddenly.

This type of argument can convince people meh?

Guest

21 Jul 2012, 10.37PM

I interviewed him yesterday and immediately offered him a job, saying that I preferred to employ an ageing baby-boomer over the odds (about S$1,200 above my budget)

You are setting an excellent example however, Lai, in an earlier post, did you quit your VP position or have you changed your mind?

Guest

21 Jul 2012, 10.45PM

Can ask how he earn his VP? er, is he a real VP? Just wondering, cos last time somebody did say he VP of some sort.

I always remembered when I was a young man just after graduation debating against a committee of 12-15 people and ended up 2 guys having to raise their voices at me, showing off that "I am a lawyer of 15 years, young man, I know what I am saying, blah blah blah" and their other "I am a VP of 12 years, you just come out and standing here to present your case, blah blah blah.." I was just wondering, er, why need to shout and show off your credentials and seniority to me, are you side tracking and avoiding debating the issues on hand, Nah, I didn't say that cos the 15 people were already boiling mad at me and 2 of them shouting away trying to drown down by persistence and points, so I let it go and say, ok, then we debate another day. It was fun, real fun, my brain cells were firing away and countering whatever assaults, didn't realise I can do it, now no fun, so boring.

Guest

21 Jul 2012, 11.35PM

Shhhhhhs, don't disturb Mr Lai, there is 2 possibility :- a) today is Saturday, he is busy with family or b) he is thinking hard how to rebut my arguments put forth.

Let's put on our thinking cap, which is likely. Point a) is probable but Point b) is more probable cos he can't be so busy the entire day with family, in between he can be at computer and looking at the arguments. Besides, for all posters of topic, it is very common for them to check what arguments put forth after a while and see if need to rebut or not or convince people. So I choose Point b). So please don't disturb him, other than thinking how to rebut, he is also reading my inputs and see if it makes sense or not, this time he must prepare himself otherwise there is a crazy person out there going to shoot down his points if not convincing. Er, there is a possibility after reading arguments put forth, he is under stressed and trying hard to maintain his stance, which my advice is relax, let go and see from many points of views.

Cheers :)

Guest

21 Jul 2012, 11.33PM

Dear Main Contributor

You sound like a 15 year old boy who still lives in the Stage 1 of political maturity. Many people have listed more than 15 DIFFERENCES between immigrants of the 50s and immigrants now. You did not read the forum enough.

Why still lump THEM and THOSE together without much thoughts and analysis?

Guest

21 Jul 2012, 11.48PM

He VP leh, VP is very big title, my teacher says don't look down on VP. May be going to be President of company soon.

(Guru)

Lai CF

22 Jul 2012, 9.08AM

Now, you all ask yourself when you are xenophobic agaisnt that 1.9-million foreign talents when yoru forefatehrs are foreign talents int eh 1950s....and eventually settled dwon in Singapore.

Fast forward to 2012..if that gentleman, Mr X, arrives in SIngapore as a 4 year odl from China or India or Phillippine or Myanmar or Vietnam.........

WIl you all still welcome as SIngapore did in 1957 without a whim of xenophobia being exhibited now?

___________________________________________________________________

You missed this point my friend.

It is comapring "apple" to "apply" as my question is:

A 4 year old from China arrived to SIngapore in 1957; and a 4-year oldl from China arriving in SIngpaore in 2012.
WHat is the difference?
- Driving up resale HDB prices?
- Taking away that coveted spot from your neighbourhood primary school in the future?

1957?
80% unemployment with an equally illeterate populaiton where shipyards, Shell and PUB are the major employers affording apprenticeships and traineeships to SIngpaoreans.

It is a pity that you lots of young punks forgot how the FOreign Talents gave your parents a head start, as well as NWC rpaid re-structuring of salaries to boost SIngpaoreans' income.

ANd even in the 50s, 60s and 70s, SIngaporeans are all aiming at "white collar" jobs with all those "blue collar" jobs dominating by Malaysians and of course Indians.

ANd during the 1980s Booming SIngpaore where we suffered a severe manpower shortage, PAP Governemnt started the WOrker levy Scheme to protect SIngpaorean workers as well as preventing the then electronic manufacturing idnustry from moving off-shores due to high labour costs and shortage of labour in SIngapore by allowing 1 SIngaporean for 4 foreigners in manufacturing:
That is:
1 SIngpaorean = S$1,200pm
4 FOreigners = S$600pm

Average bill to EMployer = S$720pm.

This isi to help manufacturing companies from relocating to Malaysia and Thailand, our main competitors from FDI then.

ANd to encourage mother to enter the workforce, PAP Govenrment allows Thai maids..and then FLippino maids to work in SIngpaore.

And during Consturciton Boom in 1980s to build-up our infrastructures to what it si today......liberal issue sof work permits to Thai workers..adn then CHinese worker......till we hit teh 1980s Recession with completion of T2 and NSEW MRT LIne sin 1987....and we 'discovered and roundup" about 100,000 illegal "immigartns" from Thailand...which setoff a diplomatic snafu with Thailand threatening to send their Navy to transport thsoe "suddnely disocvered" 100,000 illegal immigrants in SIngpaore...of course afer the completion of our major cosntruciton works and in a deep recession.....

It is nor comparing "apple" to "orange" but a case of:
"After crossign the bridge, you pull the plank away" ass exhibited a really small vocal and xenophobic minority over here.

How laughable that blaming PAP Government GE2011 and Presidential Election low margin on "Foreign Talents"...whereas without Foreign Talents, how amny of you all wil sitl be employed today...or wiaitng for 10 years for yoru HDB flats as there are no mroe foreign workers, foreign supervisors and foreign engineers in SIngapore?

WHy did PAP lost Aljunied where every wards voted agaisnt 'em, with middile-class Serangoon AGrdens voted overwhleming against them and I think Lim Hwee Hua garnered the worst percentage of votes for a PAP candidate?

WHy did Vivian won Bukit Timah Holland GRC where they were saved by HDB Heartlanders with middle-calss voting overwhelming against them?

I see what those xenophobic SIngpaoreans over here riling agaisnt foreigners as no difference from those1930s Italian fascists and Nazi attacking "people thata re different form them...and dirty Jews stealing their wealtha dn their jobs too".......

No difference really from xenopohobic nationalistis extremists in EU nowdays durign economic doldrums.

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 9.56AM

A 4 year old from China arrived to SIngapore in 1957; and a 4-year oldl from China arriving in SIngpaore in 2012.
WHat is the difference?

let me tell you the difference.

back then...

there were only ah huat, ahmad and bala. what do we have now?
it was already tremedously diffcult to put them together in a common space.

all these so-called FT from the early days did not come here demanding to work in air-con offices, they were coolies slogging off at wharfs.

there were no resident with the status "PR" that were exempted from national service.

all the FT were just as unqualified as the local natives were.

FT came with a resolve to change their lives and was determined to make this place their home.

the problem of the current situation...

the FT today, were less qualified than the general singaporean and without any controls implemented, somehow by a stroke of luck they are taking up HIGH PROFILE jobs which should be more deservingly filled by a local chap.

ang mors were often viewed as superior to asian, in their ability to articulate their thoughts in their native language which is commonly used in business today, this is somehow less seen in the asian group.
the less articulate group were penalized and said to be unfit for managerial role, unable to think out of the box when they can be just as equally good as well.
but that is likely to change in the future as the BRICS are on the rise and EURO is on the decline.

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 10.15AM

Huh, you denying the vast difference in population in 1950s and 2012?

Huh, you denying the vast difference in foreigners proportion in 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, 1990, and 2012?

Huh, you not aware of number of foreigners before 2006 and after 2006 shooting up drastically?

Huh, you not aware that Singapore growth rate of averaging 8-9% even with very low percentage of foreigners and pathetic growth rate after high percentage of foreigners?

We don't buy fear arguments like some old men, always afraid, even as a young man, we were not afraid to stand in front of a committee to debate against 20 years seniors experienced people.

We say some old men for we noticed some old men have discarded politics of fear and tasted the freedom of discarding fear. If you one day move into this point whereby you have discarded fear in your life, you will discover what is call freedom.

Serangoon Gardens is but just one area in Aljunied GRC. PAP lost in all areas in Aljunied GRC. Don't smoke thinking people like us. We are aware. Are you not aware that man to man, PAP candidates in Aljunied GRC is ahead than WP candidates but yet they won.

The only reason why you see no difference is because you are just like PAP or a grassroot leader of PAP, you stand apart from many of us and you cannot empathize, you cannot think further beyond fear, you cannot see the underclass forming, you cannot sense, you are not alert, you are not aware of surroundings, you not sensitive, you cannot think ahead of consequences of increasing foreigners to our unity, social cohesion, balanced growth, population birth rates, that eventually a large proportion of foreigners will be in mid level position controlling Singapore and Singapoeans etc.

The only thing you see and kow tow is "what if there are no foreigners then which we did not argue for, just reduce and lower number of foreigners that are making Singaporeans uncomfortable and affecting our long term survival"

Both of us have put up arguments and you have counter argued or perhaps more like ranting and stating "I see no difference between ..." and perhaps as labeling us as fascists and Nazi fanatics. Let the readers judged who is more convincing. For your information, Mr Lee Kuan Yew tried a few times in 2009-2010 to convince the population on this foreigners issue, but he still failed as you can see the expression online is still raging unabated.

Do not be offended when we just have some fun with debating, as we said earlier, we seek a higher level of existence, increasing our brain development and debating skills.

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 10.32AM

As usual, the pseudo intellect shooting all his gold plated arrows but at all the wrong targets. You're talking about construction boom and manufacturing (factory, line workers) and comparing that to the situation we have today where foreigners are taking over white collar jobs at practically all levels - step into any bank, office, call center, hotel, etc...

PMET are being pushed out, jobs traditonally taken by our vacationing kids to gain first work experience, etc...

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 10.46AM

At first, we thought of not putting up any argument as his skills and thinking level are really below us and we feel it is a waste of our time to debate against such unthinking and unobservant people.

But then for the sake of readers to enhance their thinking skills and sharpen their thinking process we put forth some of our arguments, meaning some more behind and ready to be used when needed, ha ha

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 10.53AM

Oh, we relish debating against Dr Vivan and Tan Chuan Jin, ex-top debaters leh, unfortunately not that possible, perhaps one day. (Oh, we did enjoyed putting some arguments against ST and their team of writers some years ago then, rather high level of skills and thinking required then, we learned a lot then too.)

You should thank your lucky stars, we support PAP then and lingering now, and we didn't stand forth for election which we will not otherwise why we preferred to be in the background and learning, ha ha

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 11.06AM

You see, Mr Lai CF, we got so bored with waiting for people to put forth their valid and real powerful arguments against our writings, that we switched positions and put on our thinking caps and think how to out argue our own writings, we thought up of a few "not bad" arguments against our own writings and watching to see what others can come up with.

Cheers :)

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 11.26AM

Aiyah, he just like PAP, never think ahead only fearful, he and PAP the same only realise problems after so many foreigners.

Always fearful nobody to build hdb flats, quick pump in more foreigners, er wait a minute are Singaporeans complaining of construction workers?? What about the rest of foreigners?

He not aware displacements by employers for cheaper foreigners for people in late 30s and 40s.

Singapore should thank people like us for thinking and seeing ahead, noticing the trends and helping our fellow Singaporeans. Without us blasting away, do you think employers will employ Singaporeans and our seniors.

We raise issues to help our fellow Singaporeans who have no voices and cannot out argue media that are pro-government. By the way, we not running for election, even support PAP too, just that we see this trend cannot go on, Singaporeans will suffer in the end.

PS: Yeah, it is us again, just trying to write in different form style.

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 11.57AM

You should see the fear then in Dr Vivian's eyes. He was also not sure how the election was going.

But we are sure then, we didn't write any article saying to watch out for Holland-Bukit Timah GRC, we only wrote Marine Parade GRC is not as strong as it appears to be on our usual singapore chat forum we hang out, it is still there today, with date of posting before GE 2011.

Nah, we not seeking for glory, who cares, we are just stating that PAP has slightly stronger set of candidates than SDP plus SDP was damaged by media for many years.

For SDP to grab 39.9% of valid votes is a strong warning signal as historically their % of votes is 25% thereabout, we did thought of sending a message to alert Dr Vivian to be careful as this is not exactly good for him in GE 2016, but then knowing his level, he should know what to do.

Watch out for our short article on the singapore chat forum we hang out on the failure of PAP's grassroot network, complacent, not alert, dismissive, arrogant, thanks to these factors, PAP got caught unaware of % swing and depth of unhappiness.

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 12.17PM

For those alert, notice our trend of writing on grassroots leaders, we don't know Mr Lai CF, using our sixth sense we suspect he is one of those grassroots leaders or connected or able to reach out to them, perhaps we are wrong, it's just some fun guessing, perhaps Mr Lai CF can share with us, a yes or no and guys, please don't attack nice volunteers without valid reasons.

Cheers :)

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 2.37PM

Oops, sorry, not saying Dr Vivian wasn't sharp enough like us to see where the Holland-Bukit Timah GRC election going to be, just in case this writing goes up to him or he happened to be around reading, just that he is in the election whereas we are on the outside observing, listening and analysing, of course, it is hard for him to be as confident like us, same for SM Goh Chok Tong, hard for him to sense, as er, he kind of old technology depending on grassroots while we er, more techno and more sensitive to smell a difference, basically more sensitive and intuitive, too bad our early warnings for Marine Parade GRC not heeded then.

(Guru)

Lai CF

22 Jul 2012, 3.03PM

Guest
22 Jul 2012, 10.32AM
As usual, the pseudo intellect shooting all his gold plated arrows but at all the wrong targets. You're talking about construction boom and manufacturing (factory, line workers) and comparing that to the situation we have today where foreigners are taking over white collar jobs at practically all levels - step into any bank, office, call center, hotel, etc...

PMET are being pushed out, jobs traditonally taken by our vacationing kids to gain first work experience, etc...

______________________________________________________________________

Jeezzzzz..you meant that after all PAP Government effort to re-structure the Economy from low-wage low-tech to high-tech capitla-industry..that youa re tlaking of service idnustry, you are tlakign of comepting against foreign teller, foreign accoutnants, foreign secretaries...foreign hotel chamermaid.....

You are out-fo-date in the "blue colar" world where I am:

There are plenty fo S$6,00pm to S$8,000pm design and engineering jobs in teh current construciton booms where there are simply no SIngaporeans at all - and all engineering graduates had been taken up in the manufacturing sector or the more lucrative pharma and oil & gas sector.

I am talking now of FLippino and Indian engineers and managers eanring bewteen S$6,000 to S$10,000pm in the cosntruciton industry.

I am talking of enlightened MNC employer that will nto discriminate against "country oforigin" and will pay salary of S$20,000pm to an Indian senior cosntruction manager, simply there isn't any SIngaporeans to take up that post.

You are stuck in the 20th Century time-warp my friends, sterotypical cosntruciton workers as lowly paid workers whereas during thsi current cosntruciton boom, all skilled cosntruciton workers are earning S$5,000 to S$6,000pm including voertimes......and no foreign engineer will accept salary fo less than S$4,000 pm now....simply there is a severe manpower shortage because of the knee-jerk reaction of PAP Govenremnt to cut-down on work permits and employment passes.

Salaries are rising rapidly in the construction industry now.

Where are the SIngaporeans to tkae up those S$4,500pm to S$8,00pm positiosn vacated by foreign talents whose work permits or employment passes expire and no SIngpaoreans (or even Malaysian) wanted to work in the construciton industry?

Those lowly paid cosntruciton workers?
That shows your ignorance on the hisotroy of SIngpaore COsntruciton Industry since 1970s.
"Samsui" women and Singpaoreans are logn extinct ebofre 1970s as construction idnustry wil then dominated by Malaysians and tough construciton workers are kampong bosy from Malaya.

There were never majority SIngpaoreans in the cosntruciton industry....
And when insufficient Malaysians...we look to Thailand..
And when Thais are not coming down here...we look to CHina..then India..then Blangadesh

And today?
We look to Myanmar..and CHinese workers are not coming down when salareis in CHinaa re cathcing up to lowly salaries in SIngpaore.......

FLippino?
They re "refugees" form teh Middle East 2008 Collapse...adn within the next few years, they will all (including Indians) will return abkc to Middle East where theya re paid very much higher than SIngpaoreans.

Enjoy where you can SIngaporeans as when other countries advanced like Thailand and Malaysia...less and less of tehir antionalities will come down to work in SIngpaore.

There are 3.2-million SIngpaoreans today...if less those migrants turned SIngpaoreans, perhaps 2.8-million SIngpaoreans?

Is 2.8-million SIngaporeans sufficient to man our modern Eocnomy as of today?

So, don't be so arrogant SIngpaoreans..just look at Dubai when foreign workers left them in droves in 2008/09.

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 3.30PM

Of course experienced foreigners take up high paying construction jobs because Singaporeans no chance to enter at reasonable level which gives them a chance to upgrade to high paying construction jobs, no starting point, how to go midpoint then high point???

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 6.53PM

Oops, sorry, forgot to say it's us again as usual, ha ha.

Got on your nerves? Relax, welcome your rebuttal to our this point.

Guest

23 Jul 2012, 12.02AM

Very good. So go tell those workers packed in the back of lorries daily that they should be getting $8000 to $10000 cause it's now 2012.

It's not just the current job market that matters, it's bad enough when our PMETs are retrenched after painstakingly increasing their salary over years of education and experience cause unbridled cheaper alternatives are strewn at their feet.

It's the loss of new or ongoing work experience as well which puts them further out of the job market, experience and opportunities given freely to others who have no real stakes in this country. The same can be said for our new grads too.

If this trend is to continue - get out of school and hope you're lucky enough to find a job relevant to your field of study, work a number of years then get retrenched so a cheaper foreigner can come in and just pick up where you left off... Where does that leave our country? Where does that leave our Citizens?

If you're going to put forth arguements too, at least be consistent. Why end up with the threat of foreigners pulling out like they did in Dubai when you're all for the dependence this governent has built on this foriegn workers. That if anything, underlines the fact that our economy needs to be restructured. That we can not keep relying on the steriod effects of this cheap sources regardless of how it kills the country as a whole,

...or are you insisting we continue down this path, build greater and greater reliance on foreigners while locals are sidelined and just keep kowtowing to these foreigners so they do not leave?

Guest

22 Jul 2012, 10.37PM

Dear VP Lai CF and other contributors,

Thank you for your views and exchanges.

No offense intended for any robust exchanges.

Please do not treat as losing if lost in any argument.

We learn from each other. We learn to read carefully and think before writing.

We are all winners. I look beyond winning any exchange.

It is the thrill, brain storming and brain enhancement that I seek otherwise life will be too boring.

Thank you for your contributions in enhancing my thoughts to calculate ahead and laterally too.

Welcome some more viewpoints and exchanges for greater enhancement and development of our debating skills.

WHCL

PS - As usual, we will be hanging around in our usual singapore chat forum home ground.

(Guru)

GuardianAngel

23 Jul 2012, 1.53PM

I can only say that, the ruling party is lack of study in the past history of Hougang. A young candid like Desmond Choo know what about Hougang??? I don't think he the former Hougang was??? Why Hougang people don't like the ruling party??? It is not easy task that you want to change the feeling and thinking of Hougang just by an election. With the ruling party current act and performance, you are way way far behind on achieving your objective, not pouring cold water only the ruling party but it is fact.

Remember what we study, Rome don't build in one day, so as the hate and reject of Hougang people towards the ruling party.